Despite it not making an appearance at the Boatpittsburgh events yet, I actually do have a boat that some of you have seen at the shop. The story Terry sent out recently about Nowak Commercial Refinishing got me thinking about a concern I've had with my boat for a few years now.
I've got a 1984 Sea Ray Seville which is a 19' Cuddy and a little old 4 banger that just won't give up and aside from a carb overhaul due this spring, runs surprisingly well given its age. The boat was given to me by someone who let it go to waste inside but as you can imagine I gutted it and brought it back to life and ever since its been a great little boat to enjoy the lakes on despite not being the speeding bullet I'd like to have. I'd love to upgrade to a bigger boat someday, but truthfully despite its nice appearance I worry about selling it to anyone due to an issue I'm having appear on the transom which is small bubbling of the gel coat (I assume gel coat but I guess for all I know it could be fiberglass bubbling too).
Is this a sign of structural integrity failing or cosmetic? I imagine the repair might run half the value of the boat (but I'll contact them anyhow if its structural) however I wouldn't want to sell what I'd consider a "great first boat" to someone new to boating without knowing whether this is the nail in the coffin for the thing and sour their first boating purchase experience a or three year later when the problem becomes serious. I'd hate to part it out given the condition of the thing otherwise, but I assume the rebuilt upper and lower unit of the Alpha One (has less than 50 hours on it, maybe less than 25 but no hour meter to confirm) is probably worth more than the boat without the fiberglass repairs and the fiberglass repairs may or may not be too much of an investment for this age of a boat that is nothing special otherwise. Heck, knowing its worth nothing to anyone but me I'd even entertain a repower with enough research on what all needs beefed up out back so the new motor's power doesn't tear the back end out of it - but for now I'll just stick to the topic of asking if anyone knows what I'm looking at and whether its cosmetic or something I should address whether or not I keep it or sell it. If its serious there's no chance I'll sell it as is by the way, but at the same time I don't want to sink it while pushing my luck using it without doing anything either.
Any thoughts or ideas? If pictures would help determine what we're looking at its in storage down the road and I could get some if needed.
Gelcoat blistering or osmosis, is caused by a few different things. Iron content in the water is the biggest cause.
To do the job right, open the blisters by grinding them, drain the water out by putting the boat in a vacuum bag, and drawing it out in a 110 degree room. It usually takes about 10 days to 2 weeks. The hull must be checked with a moisture meter, to make sure all is dry. After dry, fill all voids, and sand smooth. Apply interlux 2000e barrier cote, and two coats of bottom paint.
If you really want to go the xtra mile, have the bottom re-gelcoated, and forget the bottom paint.
Pretty costly to do right, and have a guarantee to prevent it from happening again.
Thanks. Is it a structural concern like I suspect after reading your post or too hard to tell until the repair is started with the grinder? Sounds like a job for the professionals for certain. I might have to take it for a ride once the roads clear up and see what they say.
There is a place in Butler that advertises their work on CL with photos of a sail boat they repaired that I believe is on New Castle Road (I think based off photos I think I located the landmarks in the background as such) that I may take it to see first just from a distance stand point realizing my boat is probably not worth the repair price I suspect will be quoted. But, the number they list is a cell phone and no business name is given so at the moment I think there is the risk of "will they be here in a year if I have trouble" as mentioned in the article I referenced about Nowak. If I pay to have it done, I want it done right and have the peace of mind knowing they'll be around if it goes sour 6 months later and I won't mind taking the ride south of Pittsburgh to do so with that in mind unless I learn more about the folks up here to sway me otherwise.
Bubbles/Blisters. Getting a moisture reading on your hull is a good idea. Checking out the wood in you transom is also a good idea but most likely has nothing to do with the blistering problem. It sounds as though there may have been a repair done on the transom at one point and it is now showing its ugly head. Any automotive products that are used below the waterline are not going to hold up. Blisters can be a problem but I don’t believe that they will sink you vessel. It would be a good idea to cap them off. Bare fiberglass will act like a wick and slowly absorb liquid.
We do warranty work for many boat manufacturers and we cant get a strait answer about blistering? These people are supposed to be the experts. I had a few newer boats come in this winter with blistering problems. The Larson had large silver dollar sized blisters on the bottom. The owner had turned it in to warranty claims and had the repair preformed by a shop in Maryland. This shop broke the blisters, put some junk in them and then individually geled each spot? The gentleman launched for the summer and when he pulled it out in the fall was surprised to find countless other blisters. When he heard about us, he brought the boat out and wanted it repaired correctly. We told the customer there is nothing we could do to make it right. When the blisters were broken red resin leaked from the areas. In the Larson’s case the hull was filled with uncured resin, with nowhere to go but out. We got Larson to take the boat back to the factory and replace the hull. We did not make a dime on the job but we got one happy customer that hands our cards out to every boater he knows. You have to be careful, there are people that will take your money for a repair that just cant be guaranteed. I also looked at another boat from a Pittsburgh dealership that was only a year old. The boat was consumed with small blisters all below the waterline. The customer told me he had gotten a number to do the repair. I was told, “I want you to do the repair, the manufacturer has authorized the repair.” I told this customer there is no way to make this repair and if someone else has quoted for it, they are just taking your money. Certain manufacturers suggest that if your boat stays in the water for more than two weeks at a stretch, apply a bottom paint epoxy. Who in their right mind wants to put bottom paint on their new 20 footer? I can understand putting bottom paint, with some antifungul properties, on a large cruiser but certainly not on a newer smaller boat. We are working with a California company that has a blister protection product that is esthetically pleasing compared to the standards bottom paints. This product is designed for water submersion. Automotive products and Gelcoat are not guaranteed for underwater submersion for any length of time. That’s right, Gelcoat, the material boats are manufactured with are not guaranteed for water submersion. 99% of the time there is not a problem with blistering but it does happen. Hope this helped.
As Gsent suggested, its probably in my best interest to cut and run on the boat and let the new owner know about the issue should I chose to do so. In the back of my mind I was hoping for a simple solution / answer to rest my mind but I realize its not out there most likely. Next time I'm at the boat I'll snap a photo to show my area of concern, but I appreciate Mr. Goodguy and everyone else's detailed responses. The bubbles are on the outside of the hull above the outdrive I believe but its been a few months since I looked at them. Last I recalled they were less than 1/4" in diameter but were enough to raise an eyebrow.
I'd definitely want to give the next guy the full story along with the "buyer beware" of me not knowing the full extent of the issue if I go that route. I'd probably be inclined to have it looked at so I could give the full story. If its something that is going to lead to the hull being junk a year or two from now, I'll just part it out and save someone else a headache by selling it to them whole unless they know what they're getting into. Fortunately I know someone with the same boat that I could possibly give a heck of a deal on the interior which would be the only things I see worth money other than the drive, motor possibly, and trailer for someone who wants to put a new coat of paint on it. For now, I'll probably just keep it to use this summer and see how much free time I really give myself this year and plan for new in 2011 seeing as how I've got a wedding to pay for this summer anyhow.
From my experience, I had small bubbles in the transom fiberglass that were caused from the heat of the exhaust. (you could actually see the bubbled areas were in the shape of the exhaust Y-pipe that connects the manifold risers to the lower unit output) Although I say heat was the culprit, the "real" culprit was a rotten transom - which allowed extensive heat from the exhaust to get to the fiberglass. If the transom is weak you'll usually see other small stress cracks in the fiberglass as well or push down on the lower unit and you'll see the transom flex - it should not flex at all....
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I have seen my friends boats who leave their boats in the water all summer and never pull them out are covered with bubbles all over the bottom. My 93 has none but she is a trailer queen. Personally, I would not keep a boat in the water for the season without bottom paint, but it is a pet peeve of mine to see a boat go up the river and the bottom be filthy. To me if they can't take care of the bottom than most likely they let the rest of the boat go also.
Fiberglass bubbles cosmetic or structural?
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