The biggest complaint I hear from most boaters is the lack of courtesy from other boaters - especially when it come to boats waking marinas. This is not a problem limited to the city pool either, this is becoming a problem at marinas everywhere - unless they are located in a no wake zone.
This got me thinking about the rules of the road. I came up with a few ideas and I would love to hear your feedback on them:
1. Make the area in front of any marina a no wake zone - all the way across the river - the full length of the marina.
2. Make the no wake zone at the point seven days a week instead of just on the weekends.
I know these are not without flaw, but maybe they would be better than what we have now. Let me know what you think.
1. Make the area in front of any marina a no wake zone - all the way across the river - the full length of the marina.
Wouldn't that make the Allegheny basically all no wake? And on the Ohio, does it matter that someone all the way across the river is making a wake?
Having asked those questions, I would tend to agree. I slow down when passing marinas, but it seems like I am the only one.
And lack of courtesy is definitely one of my complaints. I put in at South Side and the ridiculousness that goes on there is astounding. And then there are those guys that have to zip through a congested area (see your rule #2). People have no sense of decency.
Wouldn't that make the Allegheny basically all no wake? And on the Ohio, does it matter that someone all the way across the river is making a wake?
Having asked those questions, I would tend to agree. I slow down when passing marinas, but it seems like I am the only one.
And lack of courtesy is definitely one of my complaints. I put in at South Side and the ridiculousness that goes on there is astounding. And then there are those guys that have to zip through a congested area (see your rule #2). People have no sense of decency.
The rules exist. Within 100 feet of a marina the PA Fish and Boat Commission are responsible to enforce. Beyond 100 feet it becomes a civil matter. If the F&B C would do their job, instead of waking the marinas, and inforce the rules it would help. Beyond 100 feet it is up to the damaged boat owner to go after the offender. I own a 50 foot houseboat that can destroy a marina and their boats if I'm not careful. I also own a 23 foot high performance boat that when it's on top creates little wake. However, if I'm close to a marina they will feel my wake. It's up to the owners to pay attention. And, it's up to the Fish and Boat Commission to inforce the rules. Big problem is that they, and now the Coast Guard, think that they are immune. The rules are there. Just inforce them. Arrest a couple of offending boaters, or sue if beyond a 100 feet and maybe the offending boaters will get it. The problem is you always here "but I wasn't going fast". They have no clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe education and licensing is what we need. Common courtesy is out the window. Today we have bigger boats and operators who have cash and keys, but no training, including members of this forum.
I think a lot of boaters don't know the rules. I just got my Boaters license and I learned a lot by taking that test. I anchor and drift fish all the time and I get 3'-4' wakes from those cigar boats and large cruisers going way to fast and plowing. Most of the time they don't even see me. I hate when they wave at me as they are plowing waves like no tomorrow.
I agree with making the "point" a no wake zone all season long from May 1st to October 15th. If that isn't possible, at least make it a no wake zone for all of the Pirate and Steeler home games. It is frustrating to go to a game and have someone slow down and plow through the point so they can see what is going on. When someone tells them to slow down, they tell you that it isn't a no wake zone.
To make it a no wake zone around the marinas would be a great idea. It might be a little harder to get passed. I would love for it to happen though. At the marina that I dock at, we got crushed during the 4th of July weekend. There was a Silverton 34 Convertable that threw a 5' wake into our marina around midnight on the 3rd. I was trying to sleep and I got thrown all over my cuddy. Then on the 4th, there was an Azimut Yacht from Fox Chapel that crushed our marina because the operator was in a hurry to get to downtown for the fireworks because he got caught in the locks and just didn't feel like slowing down. I don't even want to imagine how badly these two boats crushed the Lock Wall One marina.
I would like for something to be done, but it will take a lot of work and a very loud voice. Hopefully we can get a voice to be heard.
Are people sustaining a lot of damage due to wakes, or does it just annoy? While we do need more courtesy, I also think some folks make more of it that it is. Not saying thats the case here, but I've watched guys at my marina get red in the face and jump around and scream to yell at boaters passing the marina when the wake they left was relatively small.
The thing that kills me is people only seem to care about wake to their boats. The guys at Fox Chapel hate wake like everyone else. But when they hurry to get back to port they blast the hell out of Aspinwall. And the guys at Aspinwall who hate wake don't seem to mind waking Washingtons landing or Sharpsburg when they're in a hurry to get to the lock after fireworks. "No wake" seems like an idea that everyone agrees with until it comes to them slowing down past a marina.
Not sure I'd agree with a no wake zone at every marina the whole width of the river. It would basically turn the entire 3 rivers area into a no wake zone. There's a marina every 20 feet it seems. I think we need to police our own a bit instead of looking at new laws. Start taking down registration numbers and reporting them if they cause damage.
Natrona Heights, Pennsylvania, United States, 105597162807351, Natrona Heights, Pennsylvania
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Originally Posted by nitsuj
I think we need to police our own a bit instead of looking at new laws.
i agree...and a little common sense goes a long way as well. if everyone would just turn around every now and again and actually LOOK at the wake they're throwing it would make a world of difference. we obviously can't count on the fish commission to police anything as far as wakes are concerned. i think that we can all agree at this point that we, unfortunately, are the minority rather than the majority when it comes to boating with a brain.
No wake when passing a marina is like having to drive 15 through a school zone... It’s the law and a great idea and even though no one really likes to go that slow they obey it because they are afraid to get a ticket. Some that are in a hurry or don’t care do not obey it. If there was more enforcement or consequences then people would think twice about waking marinas or people tied up on the wall.
As for damage vs. annoying, At my marina, there were three boats near me that got their rub rails tore off the entire side of the their boats and another complained that the cleats cracked and almost pulled through the fiberglass all over the 4th. They were properly tied and use large fenders.. but there is only so much you can do unless they start using dock whips or something…
If the point area is not No Wake all season they need a way to turn it on and off like flashing signs at all the bridges.
The boating community should police themselves. When I yell at people for waking, some people realize what they are doing and correct it (I tend to assume these are the newer boaters). Unfortunately, the response I get most frequently is people just flick you off or smile, wave and keep plowing through.
Rule of Thumb: If you can hear someone yelling at you from a marina or the wall.. You are too close!
I agree with much of the above. If you have damage file a report. If you are just annoyed, get over it. Once it gets around that we will not stand for damage people may begin to watch their wake. It's easy to know if your wake is too big---a jet skier that follows you around only does it to jump your wake. If it's big enough to attract a jet ski, it's too big!!!
No wake sounds great at the point but every marina i dont think so, my marina gets waked like everybody elses. I think people get annoyed more than anything but these are prob. the same people that never take their boat of the dock cause it wouldnt bother them that much if they were out actually boating. I dont slow down at marinas i open up the four barrels and head to the opp. side of the river even at my own marina! But that said there are idiots out there two week ago when i went past washingtons landing at a no wake speed a wake board boat passed that marina three times pulling a wake boarder one time is fine but why circle the marina ha ha and he prob. docks their that should be policed by the people at the marina. So while boating take a look back and see if u would be mad at your own wake if you would be sitting on the dock. If your on the dock make sure your boat is tied up right my boat faces bow out with the right spring lines my boat barely touches the dock. And if someone sends a true five foot wake towards the marina shoot a flare at their boat they will come back or get the message ha ha>
I prefer a Potato gun over the flare. More noise and less risk of fire. You should see the "OH Sh#T" face of a boat you shoot a potato gun at. Its epic!
I agree the no wake idea across the entire river the length of the marina is an excellent idea. There are plenty of places where there are no marinas and you can run as fast as you like. I am in the pool between lock 2 and 3 on the Allegheny River and there is plenty of river to run your boat.
I also have a problem with the large "Go Fast Boats" that run by the marina on plane close enough to hand a cigarette to someone on the docks. They bounce off our no wake buoys without regard. I see an accident coming.
The Fish and game Commission boats are no exception; they wake us as bad as the novice boaters.
The 26 to 30+ ft cruisers slow down to a speed that doubles the wake they create when on plane. They get upset when we yell at them. It all boils down to common courtesy. You should pass marina’s like you lived there and had to walk the docks after rocking the heck out of the place.
That would make it very difficult to use the rivers if it was no wake all the way accross. But do you really need to. If you are traveling on plane on the opposite side of the river, there really is little effect, the problem is with those that speed by the marinas or worse yet slow down and plow by them.
One thing I note is why do none of the marinas have whips on the docks or allow lifts. Man that would be the best answer.
I would have to say, especially after this past 4th of July, I think no wake zones need to be in front of every dock width of river and as much as I would hate to see it happen, no wake the point all week during the season.
As much as people complain to people it does not get better, we also need to see the Coast Guard and Fish Commission both follow their own rules AND enforce them instead of harassing Jet Skies.
Part of my rub rail (about half the length of my boat) is hanging on the side against the dock and the nails that hold the rubber/plastic guard on the dock have completely ripped out of the wood. I push the rub rail back in but the next time I go down, its pulled out again.
I would have to say, especially after this past 4th of July, I think no wake zones need to be in front of every dock width of river and as much as I would hate to see it happen, no wake the point all week during the season.
As much as people complain to people it does not get better, we also need to see the Coast Guard and Fish Commission both follow their own rules AND enforce them instead of harassing Jet Skies.
Chuck
I realize I trailer and am not storing my boat on the river, but we all have to share the river. As someone said above if we make it no wake across the entire river, then the Allegheny becomes unusable. I would agree with some type of markers that indicate the half on the side of the marinas no wake, and that if you stay on plane on the opposite side of the river you should be fine. At the very least Johny Law should enforce the rules already in place, that would be a start. If people aren't abiding by those, I don't think they will abide by no wake across the entire river.
Shoot on Sunday I was coming into the point area and slowing down. There was a guy doing at least 40 right by the police shack by PNC park. Nothing happened.
More signs at the beginning and end of the marina like I suggested last year I think would help. (Like the one where the Water Limo docks at on the Allegheny).
I don't think bouys are the answer because of the chances of floods would be a waste of money.
I slow down to no wake at every marina on my way to the Point even though on plane my boat throws less wake than a 3 seat jet ski.
I also don't want the entire river no wake because launching from Sharpsburg, if I have to outrun a storm (as was the case last fall), I don't want to have to stop at everyone trying to get on shore and covered (which we were successful at doing).
i just got done spending a couple days down in front of Heinz field. definitely a ton of wakes when it isn't during the weekend. However nothing 5 big fenders couldn't handle. Saw some stupid boaters waking boats that were anchored. I bet the boater must have been only 30 feet from them. Most boaters don't follow any rules. What about the sound signals for overtaking and crossing situations?
It is illegal...
* To operate a watercraft in a reckless, negligent, or dangerous manner. Boats must be operated at a rate of speed that does not endanger the life or property of any person.
* To operate a boat at greater than slow, no-wake speed within 100 feet of the shoreline, docks, launch ramps, swimmers or downed skiers, persons wading in the water, anchored, moored or drifting boats and floats. Slow, no-wake speed is the slowest possible speed of a motorboat required to maintain maneuverability so that the wake or wash created by the motorboat on the surface is minimal.
* To operate a motorboat less than 20 feet in length at greater than slow no-wake while a person is standing on or in the boat.
* To operate a motorboat not equipped with railings or other safeguards at greater than slow, no-wake while a person is riding on the bow decking, gunwales, transom, or motor covers.
* To cause a boat to become airborne or to leave the water completely while crossing another boat’s wake when within 100 feet of the boat creating the wake.
* To weave through congested traffic.
* To operate faster than slow, no-wake when within 100 feet to the rear or 50 feet to the side of another boat that is underway, unless in a narrow channel.
* To operate within 100 feet of anyone towed behind another boat.
* To operate a pontoon boat at greater than slow, no-wake speed while a person is riding outside the passenger-carrying area.
* To operate within 100 yards of any U.S. Navy vessel. You must operate at slow, no-wake speed within 500 yards of any U.S. Navy vessel.
* To operate a motorboat which anyone sitting, riding or hanging on a swim platform or swim ladder attached to the boat.
Folks you are PREACHING to the CHOIR. Most of the boaters on this site realize what happens with their wake and take appropriate actions. That said, I've seen a few who frequent this site who do not, but they seem to be in the minority. Wakes are a problem. The rules exist. Again, if you sustain damage and can identify the boat pursue legal action. Once one or two individuals are prosecuted and the word gets around things might change. Unfortunately the transgressors do not read BoatPittsburgh and really don't give a damn. If you have damage take action!!!! If you are just annoyed, get another hobby. Rocking and rolling is not damage, it's part of the sport. Again, if you have damage take action!!!!!!!!!! Otherwise, suck it up and enjoy boating. Enough said. Have a great weekend and enjoy the water.
The reason I suggested the entire width of the river would be to aid the law enforcement agencies in upholding these laws. For example, right now if a PAF&BC boat pulls someone over and writes a ticket for failing "To operate a boat at greater than slow, no-wake speed within 100 feet of the shoreline, docks..." right in front of Washinton's Landing all the person has to do is fight the ticket at the magistrates office and say they were not within 100'. That is a complete judgement call by the conservation officer on the boats distance from the marina. I could easily see a magistrate throwing it out. Its not like on the street where a cop has a radar gun that gives an exact speed or where their are definite lines painted on the road. If the law says the whole width of the river there is no judgement call.
They are able and have written tickets for no wake at the point because that is a clearly defined area.
Also, has anyone ever won a civil case against someone that cause damage due to their wake? I don't know of anybody because it is nearly impossible to win and usually more expensive then just paying for the repairs yourself.
Am i being too pessimistic about our legal system here? I'm no lawyer here, but the way i see it the laws are poorly written and antiquated hence why they are not enforced.
One last note - unless i missed it, i don't think anyone has come up with a reason against no wake at the point for the entire week during the summer?
No Wake Laws
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Originally Posted by Grantz
